avevale_intelligencer: (megohead)
[personal profile] avevale_intelligencer
I've been trying to talk philosophy with [livejournal.com profile] earth_wizard, and have discovered that I am as hopelessly outmatched as when I try to talk physics with [livejournal.com profile] pbristow or comparative theology with [livejournal.com profile] lil_shepherd. I'm trying hard not to let myself be discouraged by that fact.

So, if only to ground myself as it were, I thought I would talk a bit here about what I believe. I'm pretty sure I've done this before, but it never hurts to repeat the prescription at odd intervals.

I believe that our purpose here is to carry on the life cycle of universes. I believe that somewhere, probably unimaginably far down the line, we will achieve the capability to create our own universe. Whether it's one of us who achieves this goal, or a few of us, or all of us in concert, doesn't matter to me as much as the belief that it will happen. As a corollary to this, I believe that our own universe was at some point created, and created by a being or beings that once functioned on the same level that we occupy now, in a universe that was in its turn created in the same way. Whether any of our current, past, or future religions have accurately encompassed some part of the nature of this being or beings is not something I can pronounce upon, nor do I think it's important at this stage that we know that, though I think it will become so. Whether the cycle in its turn had some beginning, again, is a question that will need to be answered, but doesn't have to be just yet.

A vital prerequisite to our proper achievement of this purpose is that we come to a full understanding of the objective reality that surrounds us; therefore, I have to believe that such an understanding is in fact possible. This makes pragmatism, as I understand it, a philosophy that I cannot entertain. I also believe that every single step we have taken on our journey thus far, from the first primitive animisms, through the polytheisms of the Near East and the Northlands, through the monotheism of the Judeo-Christian traditions, to our current experiments with atheism and agnosticism, and on into the future, will turn out to have been important contributory factors to the understanding we will need to achieve, and therefore I think that rather than casting any of these things aside, we need to build on them and learn from them. I think they all have something positive to teach us.

And I believe that the tools we will use to achieve our purpose are already with us, in the form of language and creativity. I think these are the most important things we possess, far more important than anything else we have achieved as a species, and I believe that they are taken far too much for granted, often marginalised and/or characterised as merely survival-oriented behaviours. They are so much more than that. Survival is important, indeed it is basic, but there is more to do than merely to continue to live. We all have a contribution to make, even if we do not know what it is.

That is what I believe.

Date: 2008-10-17 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] melodyclark.livejournal.com
I'm a blithering idiot when it comes to big questions ... I can't "believe" anything because reality confuses me a little more each day. You seem at minimum smart enough to keep up with everyone on your flist even so.

Date: 2008-10-17 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dickgloucester.livejournal.com
Thank you. If there's any one thing that strikes me about you, it is how humane you are. Don't be discouraged - some people have the facility and training to argue in certain fields, some are just better at discussing abstracts, but you're clearly a very long way from stupid. Keep on posting your thoughts, please, as they keep me thinking, which, with small children on my hands, is something that's rather at a premium in my life.

*hugs*

Oh, and I do agree with you about the progression of religions being something to build on; also about language and creativity. We're not going anywhere beyond our caves without the ability to imagine a beyond and the language to shape it so that others can understand.

Date: 2008-10-17 08:54 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I agree with almost everything you've said there, and possibly all of it. (The possible exception is pragmatism, where as I understand it I agree with some of its aspects but disagree with others; however, as I don't understand it adequately I can't say that I disagree with you, only that I don't know whether I agree with you or not). I'm particularly interested that your envisioning of a 'chain' of universes created by beings who were once like us seems to be exactly like my visualisation of the Cosmic All.

Thanks! As usual you have said it better than I could...

Date: 2008-10-17 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] earth-wizard.livejournal.com
That you and I are on the opposite side of a wall in our philosophical stance and visions of reality is true, yet at least we can amicably reach across that divide and understand each other through the very tool (language) that those early, as Nietzsche said, "clever animals", our ancestors created oh so long ago in their negotiation with the strange and wonderful enviornment within which we all live and have our being; even if as I suggest that 'being' is groundless (for me and the pragmatists); or, as you suggest is both 'objective' and the very 'foundation' of our existence. What I'm suggesting is not that you are wrong, but that we are using two different approaches, two very different vocabularies, to describe our lives, thoughts, desires, and philosophies and that neither has the total truth, that both are human made truths that will in time probably be replaced with even better vocabularies and truths as we begin - with the help of science - to negotiate an understanding of our existence in this universe. Is this such a bad thing? You're view of life is to be commended, it has guided the imaginations of women and men for centuries to build this great civilization within which we all have a chance to discuss and debate such things. My virtual hands reach out in friendship and say... well done, buddy!
Edited Date: 2008-10-17 04:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-10-17 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pbristow.livejournal.com
"...as hopelessly outmatched as when I try to talk physics with [livejournal.com profile] pbristow ..."

Well, I cheated of course: I went to this little place in Guildford where they gave me a four year intensive training program in *HOW TO P0WN YOUR ASS!!!* =;o>

Cool cosmology, BTW.

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