One little side note...

[avevale_intelligencer]

My definition of "my money" is fairly narrow, confined as it is to that money which is at any given time actually in my possession. When I pay for a thing or a service, I regard the money I pay as no longer mine, and what the recipient does with it, while it may cause me some concern, is not something over which I expect to have any control. Similarly with taxes, which I regard as the price I pay for living in a country which is to some extent governed (though I've remarked before that it seems to be taking them a demnition long time to beat that devil Bonaparte). I pay them, the money leaves my possession, and while I am convinced the price is too high and the service substandard in the extreme, there is a lamentable lack of competition in the governing biz, and it is, in the time-honoured phrase, the only game in town.

I mention this because I am (I confess it) a little amused by the outraged fulminations of various people about the government using "their money," sometimes millions of pounds/dollars of "their money," to bail out the banks. I agree with the sentiment entirely...it's just the way it's expressed that gets me. I mean, whose money are they supposed to use? As far as I know, government's main if not only source of actual funding is taxation. All the rest is borrowed, and you can't use credit to pay for credit.

It would be nice if the government, instead of demanding outright payment, had to borrow money from its citizens, and return it with interest on demand (given a suitable period of notice, and of course a minimum term). If you kept lending them more and more and left it with them till retirement, that would be your pension taken care of. But then, I suppose, how would the government come up with the extra?

It probably wouldn't work...but at least then there would be some reason to refer to one's paid taxes as "my money."

Comments

[keristor.livejournal.com]

Well, they haven't used millions of any currency of my money (except possibly reckoned in Yen or Turkish Lira) because they haven't taken that much from me. However, the point is that if they use (say) 2000 pounds per person of taxes to pay for something then that money has to come from somewhere, and where it comes from is by taking that money from people by some means, basically taxes. So yes, it is indeed our money which is being taken from us to pay for other people's mistakes (and greed).

Also, if something is taken from me without my consent[1] (the usual word for that is 'stolen') I still regard it as mine. If that thing is then used to commit a crime then I have a right to be annoyed about it.

[1] Taxation is without my consent, I have no option to say they can't have the money. My only option would be to earn nothing (OK, so I am currently exercising that option!), if I earn and don't pay then they use force to take it from me and/or imprison me.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

On the whole, I agree with you -- I consider it my right to tell the government what to do with its money because I hired it to do what I want it to. I don't claim that right on grounds of it being my money, nor have I ever been of the school of thought which wants to let individuals opt out of having their taxes used for X or Y purpose. I am, however, allowed to be pissed off that the government is doing something a whole lot of its employers told it not to, and I'm happily looking forward to firing some of the employees who did it anyway.

[howeird]

For a very long time the USA did not have an income tax. Taxes were on alcohol and tobacco, and later gasoline was added, paid by the manufacturer. The cost was of course passed directly to the consumer, but the tax was levied on A&T whether or not the item sold. When income tax was established, it started being "our money". I'm only taxed if I get paid. The government takes a percentage of what I earn, so I look at this as my money, given up mostly against my will.

The government *does* borrow from citizens, and pays interest. It's called Treasury Bonds. I used to buy those before the interest rates dropped too low. I am planning on buying California state bonds later this month because there is a 2-day window for the citizens prior to the public offering.

Ha ha ... that would be nice...

[earth-wizard.livejournal.com]

I agree with your statement:

"It would be nice if the government, instead of demanding outright payment, had to borrow money from its citizens, and return it with interest on demand (given a suitable period of notice, and of course a minimum term)."


I also like the 'fair tax' approach:

http://www.fairtax.org/

What is the FairTax plan?

The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

1. Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
2. Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
3. Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
4. Allows American products to compete fairly
5. Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
6. Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
7. Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
8. Abolishes the IRS

I especially like number #8 :)

[tattercoats.livejournal.com]

I rather think some of the current situation is the result of paying credit with credit.

There's a short film called 'Money as Debt' which can be watched free all over the net. I recommend it. Be prepared to pick your jaw off the floor.