The real world?

[avevale_intelligencer]

I can't link to her eloquent and closely-reasoned post on the subject because it's friends-locked, for obvious reasons, and for reasons that would become equally obvious if you could read the post, she's disabled comments. So I'm going to talk about it here, and see what emerges, with the underlying thought that while I agree whole-heartedly with all her reasons, I don't think they apply to me.

I'm not a real person, you see. Never have been. Oh, I have a birth certificate and a passport, there's a physical body sitting here that used to resemble the avvie in the icon, and I have memories of a life spent mostly in the real world among people who might be able to vouch for my identity, if they cared. But for as long as I can remember, I've been living mostly inside my head, telling myself stories, singing myself songs, spinning off characters and scenes, because I have always known the difference between the real world and fantasy and I know which I prefer. I'm not a real person in the way that someone might say they're not a dog person. There are good things in the real world, of course, lots of them, but on the whole the real world doesn't seem to feel that it needs or wants me around, and when I try to interact with it beyond the minimum necessary for survival it makes that feeling perfectly clear to me.

But one thing about the real world that I love is having real friends to talk to and exchange ideas and songs and stories with. It's best of all when I'm able to see them face to face and exchange real hugs as well instead of virtual ones, but for one reason and another that has been becoming less and less feasible, which is the kind of thing the real world tends to do that puts me off it. You can see where I'm going here: the internet, and LJ in my particular case, is my lifeline to where my friends are. When I get bored with the scene inside my head, I can reach out through the wires and find kindred souls all over the world.

My friend says that LJ's "comment" feature encourages people to turn off their brains and react instantly and without thinking to what they read. I've never been able to do that. My brain may be old, clunky, made out of bits of two brains knocked together, missing several parts, held together by baling wire and lacking any kind of operator's manual, but one thing about it, it never stops trying to work. (Sometimes I wish to gods it would, just for a little while.) If you see something written here, as a post or a comment, you can be sure that I've thought about it. Maybe completely wrongly, and I'm as prone as anyone else to jumping to a false conclusion, but I can't write without thinking about what I'm writing, editing and re-editing on the fly, and probably going back in and editing again once I've posted. The brain is running all the time. There've been complaints about the grinding noises.

To me the opportunity to comment and be commented on is one of the main points of being on a blog at all, and LJ has become one of my main homes on the net, along with various other forums. I don't think this is a waste of my time at all; it's not as if I'm doing anything else useful with it at the moment, and every so often in the course of my maunderings I come up with a good bit and surprise myself. I'm a writer, and this is writing. It takes a very great deal of upset to make me turn off my feedback.

I fully understand why my friend is reclaiming her real life, and I applaud her. But I think I'll be staying here.

Comments

[siderea]

Marvellously put! May I quote?

[keristor.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you're staying here. LJ recently has been annoying me for something which is almost opposite your friend's reason -- there have been too many comments-locked posts. And posts with little real content (the 'twitter' things) which seem to be just "I'm here" and so nothing to really comment on. Posts like most of yours, which make me think and think /why/ I agree or disagree with the poster, seem to be on the decline (I can hope it's temporary).

And that's another reason I get frustrated with LJ. It's very difficult to get a real thread going which runs over several days, because it isn't (as far as I can tell) possible for anyone apart from the owner of a post to get updated when other people add comments (apart from the limited case when the comment is directly to the commenter). This means that when the original post scrolls off the end of everyone's flist the thread is effectively dead, and for most people I know this happens within a day or so.

I joined LJ in order to see friends' posts, and to comment. Without comments LJ is just a journal of not much interest to anyone apart from the author, or at least it is as far as authors are concerned because they wouldn't get any feedback.

[aunty_marion]

Well, I'm glad you're staying here. So am I, even if I now have to do without most of my icons *sob*. There are too many friends here who I don't see enough of in meatspace, or indeed at all; without LJ (OK, and IJ too), I'd be completely stuffed for (what passes for) a social life.

LJ

[themis1.livejournal.com]

I know I don't have much to say for myself, but I'd miss you, and your thought-provoking posts, as well!

[dickgloucester.livejournal.com]

Two responses:
1. Instant commenting, to my mind, resembles the instant feedback one gets in a real world face to face conversation. These may not be well thought out, but between the people conversing, the interchange of ideas is possible. This is what conversation is like, and it's one of the reasons that I like LJ. I've tried keeping a traditional-style journal, and it is too solitary to be of much use/pleasure.

2. With the way life is now, I'd say that for many people, something like LJ is part of RL. I've always had a very active inner life too, but with living abroad for many years, in a foreign language environment, I have come to find that however rich the inner life, it doesn't supply all my needs. The interactions of LJ, while they may not involve eye contact, as it were, give me the social milieu I've been missing. I've learned German, I've learned French - but one needs mother tongue interaction, shared perceptions, culture, jokes, quips, silliness... All of it. Life takes people away from one another - one grows up, one goes away, one's friends move away, one loses touch. Here, I'm most emphatically IN touch with new friends I have found. This may be a virtual space, but it's a very real one.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

Well (as they appear to say on the interwebs) 'word'. I love LJ for its atmosphere of a convention and the chance to hover on the edge of discussions and interract with (mostly) people I know and like but see in RL all too infrequently.

Sure, it has problems - but I also have an e-mail list that is much harder to keep up with than LJ, and a Yahoo group that is an absolute pain to access (I carefully do not mention the squee on IJ).

And for a basic introvert ,like me (and most of fandom) virtual space is much cosier than realspace.

Glad you're staying here.

[gingicat]

Exactly. I keep saying "I don't have time for LJ" but LJ keeps me connected to people outside my household, and therefore, sane.

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

I'm a writer, and this is writing.

That's what I thought when I first started using LJ, and it came up several times in the endless wrangles with M, too. It turns out that it's not the case, though: not for me.

[howeird]

For me, LJ has become much quieter, about 2/3 of my friends list just don't post anymore. The reason I joined LJ is one of my email pals got tired of sending the same letter to 50 different people (spam filters will ditch messages with long "To:" lists) so she pointed us to her LJ. She hasn't posted since January.

To make up for this, I have been searching for interesting people, real or otherwise, and found you by the simple expedient of looking up the names of everyone who wrote a song on a compilation filk CD I am fond of. You can blame Kathy Mar for inspiring me to buy that CD.

I'm glad you're here.

[stevieannie.livejournal.com]

I read the post in question, and found myself thinking that no matter how eloquently she portrayed her situation, it still bore no resemblance to any experience I've ever had on LJ.

I truly believe that what you take away from a community is directly proportional to what you put into it. You find love and friendship here because that's what you broadcast.

And me? I treasure my time on LJ because my friends aren't *unreal*, they are just removed from me. I've been able to meet interesting new people and make new friends this way. If the scientists make transporters reality, then I'll be happy to give up LJ so that I can spend more time with friends in the flesh. Until then, I'll take what I can get.

And I'm very pleased to see you here, friend!

[joecoustic.livejournal.com]

Sorry you're going to get two of these (and the comment on the comment), but I felt my first version was sort of harsh especially since I don't know the original posting. *sigh* this is why I so seldom post and comment - second and third thoughts :).

First of all, I too am glad you're staying here. I really enjoy reading your posts.

Second, Live journal is as real as someone wants it to be. The comment feature like any other version of netiquette or etiquette can be used in more and less appreciated ways. It's social and it's community at heart and can uplift and infuriate (though more often someplace in between).

I have my live journal part of my life, I have my family, I have my friends who go back up to 20 something years of knowing me. I have close friends, acquaintances, and folks I don't even know but either enjoy reading what they write, or maybe seeing them in a coffee house when I stop in. I have other parts of my life which are presently dormant but have considered reawakening. All of these things are important to me for different reasons and I wouldn't want to give any of them up since they fill very different needs I have. This is not to say that it's all happy and uplifting but that's the point, to me. Life is a mix and I'm flying somewhere in the middle.

To me it's all real and it all keeps me whole, both inside and outside of my head.

*hugs*

[do0odlebug.livejournal.com]

Pretty much sums up my feelings about the situation. Moving to Derby has NOT improved my opportunities to meet established (not ALL of them are old ;-) ) friends in the Real World, so LJ and my other social sites are more important than ever for me.

And there are people on my flists who I have never met in Reality, and, barring my traveling across oceans, probably never will.

LJ and flists both came up as mis-spellings when I spell checked this. Why? Why? WHY?

Sorry, it irritates me just a LOT.

[eoforyth.livejournal.com]

I have no life to reclaim, which is why I used to be happy to have LJ, #filkhaven and Potter/wiktt chat to try and convince myself I was real. I don't have the energy to try and interact anymore, but I find it hard to cut myself off from them completely because there are people out there that I would be unlikely to ever meet face to face and that I actually do give a damn about, even if it might not seem like it at the moment.

On the other hand, it seems to be that people are cutting themselves off from real life support in favour of the thoughtless throw away comments of people that on the whole wouldn't think twice about you if you fell off the edge of the world tomorrow.

I haven't seen the original post, but it appears from what you've said that it is more her perception of LJ that is the problem she has with the use of thecomments facility. To me it seems most LJ usage is either just a postcard of what is going on in people's lives or else another form conversation.

In my opinion, the comments button allows people to do exactly what they would do in real life conversation. Some will catch what you say and run on with it, some will pick out one or two bits (usually out of context) and use them to make their own points, which in all likelihood will have little to do with your original comment, and the majority will make a small noise to acknowledge they noticed you said something even if they didn't bother to take it all in. It's just that we don't notice so much unless it gets fixed to the page.

[m-danson.livejournal.com]

That's a great description. May I link to it and friend you?


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