(no subject)

[avevale_intelligencer]

vampirdaddy said in a comment to allisona that the word "hamburger" did not mean "from Hamburg," but was an American burger containing ham. I promptly added this:

Okay, boggle. I have been convinced for most of my adult life that (since as far as I know burgers don't contain ham, but have always been ground beef, or "mince" as we call it over here) the word "Hamburger" *did* mean "from Hamburg" and thus our word "Beefburger" was a vile neologism.

So where did the "burger" part come from?

Next you'll be telling me "Frankfurter" means a furter made from parts of a dead American singer...

I've copied it from there, since I actually want a reply from someone who can confirm or refute this. Hamburger to the best of my knowledge has never had ham in it, and "burger" seems a strange word to apply to a round meat patty without some good reason. There's a mystery here, people, and I want it solved!

Comments

[sibylle]

Hmm ... I am afraid my books disagree with vampirdaddy. My etymology book offers the following:

By the middle of the 19th century people in the port city of Hamburg, Germany, enjoyed a form of pounded beef called Hamburg steak. The large numbers of Germans who migrated to North America during this time probably brought the dish and its name along with them. The entrée may have appeared on an American menu as early as 1836, although the first recorded use of Hamburg steak is not found until 1884. The variant form hamburger steak, using the German adjective Hamburger meaning “from Hamburg,” first appears in a Walla Walla, Washington, newspaper in 1889. By 1902 we find the first description of a Hamburg steak close to our conception of the hamburger, namely a recipe calling for ground beef mixed with onion and pepper. By then the hamburger was on its way, to be followed much laterby the shortened form burger, used in forming cheeseburger and the names of other variations on the basic burger, as well as on its own.

[sibylle]

no info on Frankfurter, by the way - still searching ... .

[vampirdaddy.livejournal.com]

Okay, a bit more elaboration: while CITYNAME+er means from or belonging to the city, thus it should be "Frankfurter Bürger" (citizen of Frankfurt), "Frankfurter Würstchen" (sausage, frankfurt type).

But this quite often the city name alone is used. Thus "Frankfurter" could be either citizen or the sausage. As for hamburger see sibylle above and bardling below - my mixup of cause and recation, sorry!

[keristor.livejournal.com]

The think which boggled me was the way the German banks get named for food. I've seen a Hamburger Sparkasse and a Frankfurter Sparkasse, but the one which really takes the biscuit (in a manner of speaking) was the Bank vom Essen (the bank of eating!) *g*...

(I fancy a hamburger -- but I'm not saying who!)

[howeird]

If you will pardon an intrusion from a Yank, you are right, and vampiredaddy needs better drugs. ;-)

American hamburgers have always been made from beef, though ground pork, soy, flour and sawdust have been used as filler on occassion. Not to mention the occasional rat droppings. The name is, as was noted above, an Americanization of Hamburg Steak, just as frankfurter is an Americanization of Frankfurt sausage.

And Bratwurst, as we all know, is what happens to misbehaving little brats.

[keristor.livejournal.com]

The word 'brat' is Russian for 'brother' *g*...

Well ...

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

... the "Frankfurter" was named after Felix Frankfurter, Austrian-born American jurist. A founder of the American Civil Liberties Union, he served as an associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court (1939-1962).

(or maybe not!)

Though I do remember some Westlers-type hamburgers that did seem to include pork and pork fat in them, they were *disgusting* but were the only hot food (aside from warm stale popcorn) available in the cinema when I was young.

[bardling.livejournal.com]

I think what vampirdaddy meant is that the word "hamburger" for a meat patty (beef/pork or mixed) to a German seems (re-)"imported" from the US. In Hamburg said patties are traditionally called "Frikadelle". Another German term I know for them is "Bullette". The term hamburger for them (re-)appeared with the introduction of US-based fast food chain restaurants.

Sib's etymology search seems to explain that the name did originally migrate to the US from Germany though, which I could neither support nor refute.

"Hamburger" in general certainly does mean "from/in Hamburg", as witnessed e.g. by the sea shanty line: "Ick heff mol een Hamburger Veermaster seen..." (I once saw a 4-mast ship from Hamburg in literal translation.) People originating from or living in Hamburg (e.g. myself & katyhh) are referred to as Hamburgers.

Sidenote: German "Burg" = castle/fortress.
Hamburg derives from "Hammaburg", built around 810AD by the Karolingians as a military base to defend against tribes in the north:
"Ham", old saxon for marshy area or area by a river
"burg", fortress/castle - in this case a defensive enclosure surrounded by an earther dyke.

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

"Hamburg derives from "Hammaburg", built around 810AD by the Karolingians as a military base to defend against tribes in the north:"

So Hamburg (as it was later called) was built by the Klingons (as they were later called)? =:o}

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Gakh ist bester, wann lebendig geserviert.