avevale_intelligencer | Possibly NSFW discussion of a term that gets on my nerves

Possibly NSFW discussion of a term that gets on my nerves

I wondered how long it would be before someone brought in the masturbation metaphor to describe our discussions on Doctor Who...does anyone ever talk about "football wank" or "political wank" or "real ale wank," or is it just sf fans who get that? And is it possible, in these relatively enlightened days, that masturbation still carries in some quarters the "unnatural act/sin against the Holy Ghost/self-pollution" stigma that's implied by the comparison?

Because it is implied, let's make no mistake about that. When people talk about "fandom wank" they are not describing people indulging in a harmless and pleasurable act which is practiced by (I would imagine) the vast majority of human beings at some point in their lives. They mean to belittle us. They mean to insult us. They mean to be offensive, and they succeed. They mean to turn the passion that we bestow upon our hobbies into something squalid, something dirty, something to which no decent human being would ever stoop.

Our language is rich in words and phrases to describe what happens when people let their passions run away with them, when they lose perspective in focussing on a single issue, when tempers run high and things are said that should not have been said. This happens in all areas and walks of life, to all manner of people. Why should it be that one particular group of people, whose attention is given to particular forms of literature and drama, when they fall into this error or even when they do not, should be smeared with a playground epithet from the sucking pit of Victorian sexual repression?

I suppose it's all part of the standard bigoted view of fans as spotty unhygienic teenage boys who spend too much time reading books and not enough time getting drunk in gangs and bashing members of the minority of their choice. But it seems a little...disappointing, shall we say...when other fans support and sustain the stereotype by using terms such as this to describe each other.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

See also my LJ icon entitled 'mwah'.

For some reason, I'm reminded of a long-ago Steve Bell cartoon depicting the politicians and other not-so-worthies whom he regarded as "The Wankers Of The Year", at the bottom right-hand corner of which ran something like "NB The author of this strip would merely like to clarify that this strip is in no way intended to malign or slight a healthy and pleasure-giving pastime. Thank you."

The problem with this is that "wank" is a British term for masturbation, not an American one - in fact, until recent years, "wank" was not an American word at all, and really doesn't have, in our minds, the feeling of "a playground epithet from the sucking pit of Victorian sexual repression".

I'm pretty sure that the current (mostly American, from what I gather) fannish usage comes from the original meaning - "people who play with their fannishness enough as to lose all perspective" - but I don't think most who use it envision even metaphorical masturbation at this point.

And "freedomwank" goes even further, since it's not even used as an epithet there. There is means, basically, passionate discussion. Which is pretty far from masturbation.

As an example of USAsians non-use of the word until recently, I remember the (unintentional) hilarity at school when we discovered that Mork and Mindy's landlord was Arnold Wanker.

BTW 'Wanker' was originally school slang for a bloater or a derivation of 'Wonker' a useless naval cadet. The modern usage comed from 'Whanker' (military slang) and seems to have lost the h since the Second World War

Well, yes, and I remember people sniggering at school about the Wankel rotary engine. Little things, and so on.

I still think that in some and possibly most cases where I have encountered it the word is used in full knowledge of its current connotations and with intent to abuse. Erm, as it were. I may be wrong, of course, and I may be taking an overly jaundiced view...but I remain to be convinced.

Um. Maybe. We are pretty familiar with quite a lot of American slang over here, though, including its associated meanings, and it seems unlikely that there's been no traffic the other way in the past five decades. And "recent years" is what we're talking about.

You could be right, but from the tone and usage of the word as I've encountered it in my websurfing, I can't quite make myself believe it.

Oh, I'm sure they know what it means - they are comparing fannish arguments to masturbation, which then becomes passionate discourse.

But since they learned the word as adults, not as kids, it doesn't have schoolyard connotations. In a word, it doesn't feel naughty to them, as opposed to the way it feels to those who grew up with it. At best, it began as mildy transgressive - just enough to feel "cool" and maybe superior to those who indulge in the discussions they're snarking, so there is a nasty edge to it.

Not that I have anything against snark, you understand.

I've come to notice that it is generally applied to that non-productive to-and-fro-ing, with each person not taking much notice of anyone but themselves, rather than for proper discussion, etc., which, when you think about it, makes 'wank' a rather appropriate name for it.

I think the real problem is that people are erroneously applying the term to all forms of open discussion.

For originating of the fannish use of the term, we apparently have to think the fairly recently deceased Craig Hinton, who (according to his obit in DWM), having created the term, cheerfully agreed when it was used to describe much of his own writing.

Since then the meaning has drifted and generalised somewhat, from "attempts to explain way plotholes that no one else really cares about *in fiction*", via doing so in on-line discussions, to just generally discussing anything in an obsessive fashion, to please oneself rather than with any serious prospect of edifying others.

Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanwank

Of course, just 'cos the originator of a term didn't intend it to be used nastily, doesn't mean that it won't be... =:o\

OH, dear - I never knew what Wank, wanker, etc. meant before! It's certainly NOT common usage in the part of the U.S. I live in, either. I never heard the terms you mentioned in your posts at all.

I do have one thing to point out though... If something (word, object, action) makes one's self go STOP/WAIT/WRONG/BAD or some version thereof, it's time to get out the brain shovel and go digging in one's own past to see what is the issue and how it got caused.

I have a wierd one in my past. I always throw rolls of toilet paper, usually INTO the grocery cart. But if I'm shopping with my husband, I'll throw it at him to catch.

WHAT on EARTH started that? I got out my brain shovels, found it and it's a long and lovely story for another day.

But I don't do it anymore. I merely put the tp in the cart like any other normal person.

Hopefully you will discover why the four letters WANK make you more upset than any of the other horrid four letter words ( I won't repeat them ).

I'm so NOT getting on your case. I'm offering my view of life in relation to how to get rid of unnecessary psychobaggage.

What I always found so fascinating about the word "wank" was that my German teacher used pretty much the same expression (hirnwichsen = brain wanking, brain jacking off) to describe the same thing around 10, 12 years ago and she was a total internet denier/definitely not connected to the online world in any way.

[she used it to describe people who were obsessing to much about things she considered insignificant or stupid and who kept bugging her about it. She certainly had an air of "Stop the Hirnwichsen and get a life" going on]

The same espression exist in french. "Branlette intellectuelle" = intellectual wanking.

does anyone ever talk about "football wank" or "political wank" or "real ale wank," or is it just sf fans who get that?
I suppose it's all part of the standard bigoted view of fans as spotty unhygienic teenage boys who spend too much time reading books and not enough time getting drunk in gangs and bashing members of the minority of their choice.

Non-fannish stuff gets it too (http://www.journalfen.net/userinfo.bml?user=otf_wank). And fannish stuff does include (though more rarely than otherwise) non f/sf stuff, like the Celebrities (Non RPF-related) (http://www.journalfen.net/tools/memories.bml?user=fandom_wank&keyword=Celebrities+%28Non+RPF-related%29&filter=all), Pop Fandom (http://www.journalfen.net/tools/memories.bml?user=fandom_wank&keyword=Pop+Fandom&filter=all), and wrestling (http://www.journalfen.net/tools/memories.bml?user=fandom_wank&keyword=Wrestling&filter=all) categories. If that's any consolation....

I think it started as a handy metaphor and expanded to include other things, so that now the newer usage has only a passing connection to masturbation--there when someone wants to make a joke about chafing etc., but hardly present otherwise. For a more wtf-worthy (in my opinion) example of usage shift, look at #3 for "shit" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shit) (waaaay down there). (And I also agree with

mamadeb up there--when you adapt a foreign piece of slang, you don't necessarily pcik up all the associations that come with it. I think it tends more to come as just the basic definition and maybe a vague idea of whether it's rude, formal, etc., and if it enters into general usage it'll pick up a new set of associations for the new group that's using it. I always thought "wank" was a fairly light word--dismissive, but not, "omething squalid, something dirty, something to which no decent human being would ever stoop," and fairly low on the... vulgarity hierarchy. But it looks like that's not entirely the case.)

(Oh, and when I say "common usage", I don't mean for the entire society, necessarily. Just for any group that's picked it up. I don't think "wank" is commonly used in the US as a whole.)

I always understood that it was called wank because it was masturbatory (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/masturbatory) (second definition).

well, I think the term wank is in use because the kind of self-indulgent argument that gets so termed is, like masturbation, inherently self-indulgent and gratifying only to the performer, not to those observing.

And personally, I like it, but then, my friends and I are prone to insulting each other for fun, so I may not be a good example...

I actually did a post a while back making fun of the term. I had only found out what it meant after I had come across a site called Fandom Wank. Therefore as an American who is guilty of what you had ranted about and could traitorously give you proof , I cannot apologize for it but I can acknowledge it. Still, pardon the slang, if an American had come up with the phrase, it would most likely be known as Fandom Jerkoff.

I'm Australian, and we do use the word "wank" to refer to discussions in non-fannish contexts. It's very common, in fact.

At my pagan soc meeting, I heard a bok referred to as full of Crowleywank. Personally, I use the definition used by F_W - self-indulgent posturing arguments serving no purpose o the community at large. Not inherently wrong, but behaviour that the preson shouldn't be engaging in in pubic.

I wouldn't use it to describe open fannish discourse, or even necessarily extreme fannish behaviour.

I used to think most people who participated in Wanks over on Fandom_Wank were good comedians, even when they did a wank about me. I enjoyed the wank and laughed at myself. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Not only do they intend to insult, belittle, and be offensive as you point out, they are very insecure in their own lifes. If a person they have perviously wanked just stops into their journal and says "Just wanted to say Hi" they go absolutely badshit.

When I did this, the guy accused me of sending him a email claiming I was going to steal his identity. Of course I didn't know what he was talking about, but I did discover that Wankers were some pretty crazy and freaky people who should be avoided at all cost.

They can make fun of you for weeks or even months, but they can't take even a small one time joke about themselves.

Wanker really is a good term to describe who they are. I don't think they know why this term fits so well, but it does.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only